This is a little device that is wrapped around a bill to fool the slot machine into thinking it is accepting a $100 bill when in reality it is just accepting a humble $1 bill.
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Manufacturer-KONAMI
I noticed this machine last night when I was at the casino just kind of screwing around.
Advantage
The Advantage to this game is that you know when a Bonus Game absolutely MUST occur, and you know EXACTLY how long (at most) it's going to take you to reach the Bonus Game, which will enable you to determine exactly how much $$$ you're going to need to run through to hit the bonus.
There is a, 'Bonus Clock,' on the top of the machine that indicates when you are going to hit the Bonus Game, which is at 12:00. There are four spots in between the different hours (which also have a spot) and there are five what I will term 'notches,' on the only hand of the clock which will move you to the next spot after they have all been filled. Each bet fills a notch.
For example, if your clock is exactly at 9:00 and you have no notches filled, then there will be 15 spots until you reach 12:00 and you must fill 5 notches to be guaranteed to move a spot. In this case, if the minimum bet is $0.50 (it was) you will play a maximum of 15 * 5 * .50 = $37.50 in order to make it to the 12:00.
Is there an advantage to Max Betting?
It seems that the base payouts are perfectly graduated, so I'm going to say there is no advantage to Max Betting unless you are close to the Bonus Games. I did not Max Bet at any point, but the second time I was reasonably close to a Bonus Game, I upped my bet to $1.00 and there is quite clearly more results that lead you to the game that results in one of the Progressive Jackpots the more that you bet. More on that later.
Progressives
You can thoeretically win any of the Progressives regardless of how much you bet. There are four Progressive Levels.
Base Pays
My sample size was limited, but I'm going to say that they suck. Out of roughly 100 spins not resulting in Bonus Games, two were profitable. There are a bunch of, 'Winning,' spins in which the player loses a little bit of money. Three Mixed Bars is a good example which pays $0.10 on a $0.50 bet.
The Bonus Games
The first bonus game is called, 'Shakin' and Reelin',' for which I found the following video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOfJ21I4gqY
The way that this game works is that there is another clock hand along with two horizontal-running reels (one top and one bottom) that have results run across them. In this game, some of the results are, 'Collect,' while some of the results are 'Jukebox Jackpot,' and the other results are a Credits award and the game continuing.
On both occasions that I hit the Bonus Game, it was Shakin' and Reelin'.
I did not hit for the, 'Jukebox Jackpot,' the first time that I played the game, but I did notice that when I was betting the Minimum Jukebox Jackpot ran alone on the reels while there were often three of them in a row when I had bet $1.00, and I did hit it that time.
The second game is just immediately going to, 'Jukebox Jackpot,' and here is a video of that I found:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCf79SyXVHw
Basically, in order to win any of the Progressives, you have to ultimately reach Jukebox Jackpot. Jukebox Jackpot gives you three albums to choose from, and each album correlates to a combination of colors which are indicative of the Progressive that will be won if you land on that color. After the colors have been established, the spinner simply lands on one of the spots and that is what you get.
Play Report
As stated, the first machine I played I was playing at $0.50/pull just to see what the Bonus Game was all about. I hit the Shakin' and Reelin' Bonus Game in which I did not ultimately hit the Jukebox Jackpot, but I did hit for the 500 Credits (Best Non Jukebox Jackpot Result) three times as well as a few other hits before I ended up collecting at $17.80.
The only profitable spin during this series was one in which I hit for some amount of Sevens and $14.00.
I actually ended up about $15.xx ahead because the clock on the top is randomly accelerated by increments of time that also seem to be pretty random. I jumped from 9:00 to the second mark after 10:00 and then I jumped from 11:00 (with three notches) all the way to the mark before 12:00, so five pulls after that and I was at the Bonus Game.
I played the second machine for academic purposes even though it was only at 4:00, so I knew I was eating it on ER. I had decided to determine the effects of raising my bet when I got reasonably close to the Bonus Time. I had another hit for about $14.00, but aside from that, it was a bunch of losing spins or, 'Winning,' spins that lost me money. Fortunately, the random time accelerator hit for me a couple of times in this span, so I ended up at 10:00 and decided to up my bet to $1.00 in order to see what the effect was on the game. I had about twenty spins with minimal returns and then got accelerated straight into the Bonus Time that time betting $1.00.
The credits did not seem to be any different despite the increase in bet. Perhaps the Shakin' and Reelin' Credit Rewards would increase per Line bet on a Max Bet, I have no idea, but it seemed that there were more Jackpot Riches triggers, and I hit for one of those.
Prior to hitting Jackpot Riches I had hit for another 500 Credits award, and that was the only result prior.
I selected my album in Jackpot Riches, the large record at the bottom filled with colors, and I hit the Major Progressive for $23.xx.
I ended up ahead by about $20.xx when everything was all said and done and decided that I will not play this machine again unless it is at least at 9:00, and it might even need to be later than that for the player to have anything even approaching an advantage. I can't even begin to tell how to determine that as I have not played the machine enough, but unless the machine is Video Keno, I'm not going to fight against a horrible ER, either.
I would like to reiterate that those are not my YouTube videos.
Conclusion
This machine may be worth playing at an advantage if you are close enough to the Bonus Time. If anyone else has played this machine and has anything else to offer, that would be appreciated, of course. Unfortunately, I am nowhere near having determined an advantage point for this machine.
I assume there is an Advantage Point however because:
1.) It is a Progressive, so there is always an advantage point at some point.
AND
2.) The hit rate and base pays, admittedly on a very small sample size, are simply so horrendous that the ER of the Bonus Time simply must be well over 100% of the spin(s)---at a certain point---that it takes to get there, or there is almost no way this machine could be paying back at jurisdictional minimums.
First off, there's at least three generations of this unit that, at a glance, look similar-- a 5-reel model that gives a shot at each progressive and has an older look to it, the one described here, and a newer (?) version that has a car theme and a multiplier to Bonus Time. Generally speaking, info is true for each.
(Text from the parent post is marked in spoiler tags, while personal additions are beneath.)
Machine-Rock Around the Clock (Advantage Revolution) 3-Reel
Advantage
The Advantage to this game is that you know when a Bonus Game absolutely MUST occur, and you know EXACTLY how long (at most) it's going to take you to reach the Bonus Game, which will enable you to determine exactly how much $$$ you're going to need to run through to hit the bonus.
There is a, 'Bonus Clock,' on the top of the machine that indicates when you are going to hit the Bonus Game, which is at 12:00. There are four spots in between the different hours (which also have a spot) and there are five what I will term 'notches,' on the only hand of the clock which will move you to the next spot after they have all been filled. Each bet fills a notch.
For example, if your clock is exactly at 9:00 and you have no notches filled, then there will be 15 spots until you reach 12:00 and you must fill 5 notches to be guaranteed to move a spot. In this case, if the minimum bet is $0.50 (it was) you will play a maximum of 15 * 5 * .50 = $37.50 in order to make it to the 12:00.
The clock can also be bumped forward randomly, from a minimum of 1 hour/whatever's left, to, what I've seen, 6 hours. The 2nd generation appears to have the most bumps.
Is there an advantage to Max Betting?
It seems that the base payouts are perfectly graduated, so I'm going to say there is no advantage to Max Betting unless you are close to the Bonus Games. I did not Max Bet at any point, but the second time I was reasonably close to a Bonus Game, I upped my bet to $1.00 and there is quite clearly more results that lead you to the game that results in one of the Progressive Jackpots the more that you bet. More on that later.
On the 2nd gen units, I've seen each spin go from 50/75/[something]/150/275, for 1x to 10x. This is because you're paying 25 per spin, plus 25 for the Bonus. There is no change in the size of the wins from the bonus that's visible. (I've had wins from 40c to ~120$ from doing straight minimum bets.)
Effectively, there's a slight benefit from larger bets, but it's minor and not worth it unless you're NOT bonus chasing like anybody else. (Example: Mixed bars give a base of 10. That's 20% of minimum, or 26.6% of the second bet, up to 36.36% of max.)
The Bonus Games
The first bonus game is called, 'Shakin' and Reelin',' for which I found the following video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOfJ21I4gqY
The way that this game works is that there is another clock hand along with two horizontal-running reels (one top and one bottom) that have results run across them. In this game, some of the results are, 'Collect,' while some of the results are 'Jukebox Jackpot,' and the other results are a Credits award and the game continuing.
On both occasions that I hit the Bonus Game, it was Shakin' and Reelin'.
I did not hit for the, 'Jukebox Jackpot,' the first time that I played the game, but I did notice that when I was betting the Minimum Jukebox Jackpot ran alone on the reels while there were often three of them in a row when I had bet $1.00, and I did hit it that time.
The second game is just immediately going to, 'Jukebox Jackpot,' and here is a video of that I found:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCf79SyXVHw
Basically, in order to win any of the Progressives, you have to ultimately reach Jukebox Jackpot. Jukebox Jackpot gives you three albums to choose from, and each album correlates to a combination of colors which are indicative of the Progressive that will be won if you land on that color. After the colors have been established, the spinner simply lands on one of the spots and that is what you get.
The 3rd generation has additional bonuses, plus alternative tiers of them (or maybe just Jukebox Jackpot). The 'advanced' tier of Jukebox Jackpot has considerably more big progressives. In my case, the smallest progressive was eliminated entirely.
Shakin' and Reeling can continue for quite a while... or end immediately. If it collects on the very first spin, you get a consolation 5$, which is approximately equal to the smallest progressive. Otherwise, you get whatever you get. (Which I've seen range from 40 cents to ~120$, whereupon the woman got Jukebox Jackpot.)
Conclusion
This machine may be worth playing at an advantage if you are close enough to the Bonus Time. If anyone else has played this machine and has anything else to offer, that would be appreciated, of course. Unfortunately, I am nowhere near having determined an advantage point for this machine.
I assume there is an Advantage Point however because:
1.) It is a Progressive, so there is always an advantage point at some point.
AND
2.) The hit rate and base pays, admittedly on a very small sample size, are simply so horrendous that the ER of the Bonus Time simply must be well over 100% of the spin(s)---at a certain point---that it takes to get there, or there is almost no way this machine could be paying back at jurisdictional minimums.
I second this. It can feel downright nasty to play at times, but if you don't mind vulturing, it can be pretty nice. At a rough guess, I estimate it costs ~5$ per hour remaining on the clock and use that as a baseline. I'd highly recommend not touching any unit that isn't advanced to at LEAST 6 o'clock.
Notes on Generational Differences
(Based on personal observation of units; there may be other variations as well.)
1st gen: 5 reels, a much older look to it as a whole. There's a freespin game with expanding wilds if you get 3 scattered bonuses. The Jukebox Jackpot is a wheel spin for EACH progressive with decreased odds with higher progressives. Base progressive is lower than 2nd gen. (Only seen at Valley View, in the Temecula region near SD, CA.)
2nd gen: The game discussed by the parent, is an Ad-Vantage Revolution unit; the Jukebox Jackpot is a SINGLE wheel with different segments worth different progressives. I've seen it range from 0 to 5 spaces being worth minimum and 1-4 spaces being worth maximum, with varying numbers in between. Base progressives are usually 5/20/100/800?. This is, by far, the most common unit.
3rd gen: Largely the same as the second. The Bonus Time event tends to have smaller rewards, but there's a bonus multiplier that I've seen vary from 1x-5x. Progressive also has lower minimums than 2nd gen. Additional Bonus Time events. Seems to give much fewer 'bumps' on the clock. Does NOT have the basebet+25 effect that 2nd gen has (as far as I can recall). Only seen one unit at The D (I think) and 4 units near the parking garage of South Point.
First of all, let me thank you for this excellent and EXTREMELY informative post. The informaton that you have provided has, in all liklihood, saved me a S***load of money, because I would otherwise have had to figure this bad boy out at -ER.
I've never seen the other versions of this game, so my reply will be restricted to the version in the OP.
The clock can also be bumped forward randomly, from a minimum of 1 hour/whatever's left, to, what I've seen, 6 hours. The 2nd generation appears to have the most bumps.
It would be difficult, at best, to ever compute the liklihood of the random bumps. Therefore, I would encourage anyone playing this machine to approach it, for Maximum ER, under the assumption that the random bumps will not happen.
On the 2nd gen units, I've seen each spin go from 50/75/[something]/150/275, for 1x to 10x. This is because you're paying 25 per spin, plus 25 for the Bonus. There is no change in the size of the wins from the bonus that's visible. (I've had wins from 40c to ~120$ from doing straight minimum bets.)
Effectively, there's a slight benefit from larger bets, but it's minor and not worth it unless you're NOT bonus chasing like anybody else. (Example: Mixed bars give a base of 10. That's 20% of minimum, or 26.6% of the second bet, up to 36.36% of max.)
I believe the, 'Something,' is the $1.00 level because I believe that is what I increased my bet to towards the end of my second run.
In your opinion, when you hit that Shakin' and Reelin' Bonus, does it seem like there are more spots for the Jukebox Jackpot by Max Betting, or even betting more? That was my experience, as I never saw five in a row run at the minimum bet, but if you have, then there is potentially no effect with Max Betting as relates to only the Bonus. If it is the same $0.25 going to the Bonus regardless of the bet level, then depending on your starting point and the ER of the bonus relative to the total bet, it would seem that Max Betting could actually be a disadvantage when one is fairly close to the bonus.
Shakin' and Reeling can continue for quite a while... or end immediately. If it collects on the very first spin, you get a consolation 5$, which is approximately equal to the smallest progressive. Otherwise, you get whatever you get. (Which I've seen range from 40 cents to ~120$, whereupon the woman got Jukebox Jackpot.
This is very good information as I had no idea what would happen if you hit, 'Collect,' on the first spin. I figured that there might be a return of the Base Bet, but $5.00 isn't a bad consolation if one is betting the minimum.
2nd gen: The game discussed by the parent, is an Ad-Vantage Revolution unit; the Jukebox Jackpot is a SINGLE wheel with different segments worth different progressives. I've seen it range from 0 to 5 spaces being worth minimum and 1-4 spaces being worth maximum, with varying numbers in between. Base progressives are usually 5/20/100/800?. This is, by far, the most common unit.
Excellent. I also tend to wonder if the Jukebox Jackpot settings have anything to do with the amount bet or if it is simply based on the album one chooses without respect to the amount bet.
I suppose the only way to really determine that is to look for differences in the Jukebox Jackpot symbol appearances in Shakin' and Reelin' as well as symbol allocation on the actual Jukebox Jackpot compared to the amount bet. Again, that could become quite costly, so it should only be done when one is quite near a Bonus Time. I would probably only switch to a Max Bet well after 11:00 if not only at the first or second mark before 12:00. It's just not worth finding out otherwise when one is going up against the crappy base pays.
I second this. It can feel downright nasty to play at times, but if you don't mind vulturing, it can be pretty nice. At a rough guess, I estimate it costs ~5$ per hour remaining on the clock and use that as a baseline. I'd highly recommend not touching any unit that isn't advanced to at LEAST 6 o'clock.
I missed that part in my previous post, somehow. I agree with this statement completely and would say that you are looking at 5 * 5 * .50 = $12.50 in total bets as you move from one hour to the other, however, between wins and the possibility of the time acceleration, $5.00 seems like it should be about right.
I also agree with the last part of Venthus' statement, except, I would recommend not touching any unit that has not advanced to at least 9:00 or maybe 10:00.
I believe the, 'Something,' is the $1.00 level because I believe that is what I increased my bet to towards the end of my second run.
There might be multiple settings in different places; I seem to recall seeing a 8x+25 somewhere. (Whiskey Pete's@Primm maybe?).
In your opinion, when you hit that Shakin' and Reelin' Bonus, does it seem like there are more spots for the Jukebox Jackpot by Max Betting, or even betting more? That was my experience, as I never saw five in a row run at the minimum bet, but if you have, then there is potentially no effect with Max Betting as relates to only the Bonus. If it is the same $0.25 going to the Bonus regardless of the bet level, then depending on your starting point and the ER of the bonus relative to the total bet, it would seem that Max Betting could actually be a disadvantage when one is fairly close to the bonus.
Can't really say; I pretty much never raise my bet off the minimum since I chase the bonus. The one time I was actively paying attention to somebody playing above the minimum, she hit a giant block of solid red 7s and cashed out for something like 250$ instead continuing on to the bonus. (She was also aiming to burn her cash down to take advantage of a potential loss rebate. Go figure.) I've hit JJ via S&R before, but not often, and certainly not as much as just scoring the consolation 5$.
Excellent. I also tend to wonder if the Jukebox Jackpot settings have anything to do with the amount bet or if it is simply based on the album one chooses without respect to the amount bet.
It's not inherently related; I've gotten, at minimum bet, on multiple occasions, boards without any greens. (And, invariably, I get blue...) I've probably witnessed over 100, and DEFINITELY over 50 progressive attempts and have never witnessed a red win. There's been maybe six yellows.
I suppose the only way to really determine that is to look for differences in the Jukebox Jackpot symbol appearances in Shakin' and Reelin' as well as symbol allocation on the actual Jukebox Jackpot compared to the amount bet. Again, that could become quite costly, so it should only be done when one is quite near a Bonus Time. I would probably only switch to a Max Bet well after 11:00 if not only at the first or second mark before 12:00. It's just not worth finding out otherwise when one is going up against the crappy base pays.
In regards to G3 units, I don't think the multiplier is related to bet size; I had a multiplier shift from 3x to 5x on the final spin before Bonus Time while playing min bets all the way from 6->12, with a 3-hour-bump along the way. Thankfully, that actually put me up 10$ at that unit, otherwise I'd've rendered a loss. (Hey, it was enough to cover milkshakes and hot dogs for everybody.)
Also in regards to G3 units, I ended up... moderately lucky and went from a minigame that advanced/retreated along a boardgame for X number of spins and landed on a tile for something like 'Golden Jukebox Jackpot' that had 4 reds, 5 yellows, 3 blues. (Again: Guess what I got...) This was also on minimum bet.
I also agree with the last part of Venthus' statement, except, I would recommend not touching any unit that has not advanced to at least 9:00 or maybe 10:00.
Good luck with getting any then-- the timer after Bonus Time tends to start anywhere between 2-5 and the only reason people leave them when they're late is because they ran out of money or they don't know how the bonus works. Which happens occasionally, I admit, but pretty much only at casinos that don't have regular players, and therefore people not savvy with them. (Whiskey Pete is good for that since it's right in front of the doors.)
Can't really say; I pretty much never raise my bet off the minimum since I chase the bonus. The one time I was actively paying attention to somebody playing above the minimum, she hit a giant block of solid red 7s and cashed out for something like 250$ instead continuing on to the bonus. (She was also aiming to burn her cash down to take advantage of a potential loss rebate. Go figure.) I've hit JJ via S&R before, but not often, and certainly not as much as just scoring the consolation 5$.
That's basically what I plan to do. I wish I lived in an area with more casinos, I'd make a friggin' killing late at night when nobody else is there on these kind of games. I basically have two casinos within an hour of me, then one that is an hour and a half away, and then another three that are two hours away. I really wouldn't want to drive more than an hour on the chance that a machine(s) of this nature would be close to the bonus. That's the thing that sucks about the casino closest to me with respect to Bonus Vulturing, this is the only game there even remotely like that! I basically vulture with respect to Quick Hits Progressives at an advantage, but they are still so uncertain, and then you hit the smallest one and are now at -ER. They're great, don't get me wrong, but Bonus Vulturing is so much better...
I'm working on Progressive Vulturing on a couple of Video Keno games now, have to do the Math on it, though. I'll let you know as soon as it is done.
I forget the name of them, but there used to be a row of five of this really awesome game where it said the Bonus was guaranteed to hit by the 200th spin. The nice thing was that it was parked near an American Original machine at which you could make a bet totalling $0.01. I could basically just sit at that American Original machine and go through the motions of playing every few seconds while I counted off how many spins each person made since the last Bonus and wait for them to leave. Nobody knew about it unless they actually read the Rules from the Menu because it wasn't advertised anywhere on the machine! Just wait for someone to go 150+ without a Bonus game and swoop in and Max Bet the Hell out of it. The Bonuses kicked ass, too, I don't think I ever saw less than $100 on a $3.00 Max Bet. Those machines are gone now, though.
It's not inherently related; I've gotten, at minimum bet, on multiple occasions, boards without any greens. (And, invariably, I get blue...) I've probably witnessed over 100, and DEFINITELY over 50 progressive attempts and have never witnessed a red win. There's been maybe six yellows.
Rock Around The Clock Slot Machine For Sale Craigslist
That's still pretty sweet and is excellent information. I would then say that there is no reason to ever Max Bet if one is going to be Bonus Vulturing. The closer that one gets to the Bonus Time, the more Max Betting hurts the ER on the total amount played. Again, there would be a point that Max Betting is better given the Base Pays, but it's difficult to say where.In regards to G3 units, I don't think the multiplier is related to bet size; I had a multiplier shift from 3x to 5x on the final spin before Bonus Time while playing min bets all the way from 6->12, with a 3-hour-bump along the way. Thankfully, that actually put me up 10$ at that unit, otherwise I'd've rendered a loss. (Hey, it was enough to cover milkshakes and hot dogs for everybody.)
I heard that, my friend, a win is a win and an advantage is an advantage...have to take the small ones with the big ones!
Good luck with getting any then-- the timer after Bonus Time tends to start anywhere between 2-5 and the only reason people leave them when they're late is because they ran out of money or they don't know how the bonus works. Which happens occasionally, I admit, but pretty much only at casinos that don't have regular players, and therefore people not savvy with them. (Whiskey Pete is good for that since it's right in front of the doors.)
The first one I played was already at 9:00, though there are only two of them, so I may never see that again. I'm just going to have to hope for that to happen, though, at an estimate of $5.00 per hour at Minimum Bet just to make it to the bonus, starting at 6:00 just isn't good enough unless the average Bonus Win is going to be $30.00+, and it's not. That's why I said maybe even 10:00, $15 might even be a bit of a stretch for an average Bonus Win.
Video Slot Machine For Sale
I forget the name of them, but there used to be a row of five of this really awesome game where it said the Bonus was guaranteed to hit by the 200th spin. The nice thing was that it was parked near an American Original machine at which you could make a bet totalling $0.01. I could basically just sit at that American Original machine and go through the motions of playing every few seconds while I counted off how many spins each person made since the last Bonus and wait for them to leave. Nobody knew about it unless they actually read the Rules from the Menu because it wasn't advertised anywhere on the machine! Just wait for someone to go 150+ without a Bonus game and swoop in and Max Bet the Hell out of it. The Bonuses kicked ass, too, I don't think I ever saw less than $100 on a $3.00 Max Bet. Those machines are gone now, though.
Aruze has a few slots that do that (there may be others):
http://www.aruzegaming.com/games/chinesephoenix.html
http://www.aruzegaming.com/games/giantpanda.html
http://www.aruzegaming.com/games/shenlong.html
If you look at the screenshots, there's a 'Bet for Rescue Spin' option in the bottom middle that you can turn on.
I may be off on the details, but it works something like this:
Insurance costs each spin extra credits.
If, after 200 spins, a bonus has not hit:
- You get free cash, something like 30$.
- You get extra wilds on the reels during the bonus.
- You get extra spins on the bonus.
- The bonus has a multiplier based on the bet size of the last few spins.
If the bonus DOES naturally hit:
Congrats, you just learned what 'insurance' is...
(Oh, and for people in the Temecula area: Rincon has 8 of these, plus 4 G2 Bonus Time units. Right next to each other too, so you can camp both sets.)
Does anyone else think that the animation on that Rock Around the Clock game is really creepy? Come to think of it, an Konami game is a little off-putting in that respect.
Well, I guess kids might have a problem with Castlevania or Silent Hill, and those sensitive to flashing lights and loud sounds might have problems with DDR... =)
Does anyone else think that the animation on that Rock Around the Clock game is really creepy? Come to think of it, an Konami game is a little off-putting in that respect.
I've noticed that with a few other Konami games, but I didn't think this one was that bad.
Aruze has a few slots that do that (there may be others):
http://www.aruzegaming.com/games/chinesephoenix.html
http://www.aruzegaming.com/games/giantpanda.html
I don't believe it was any of those because 300 credits was the Max Bet, but it was something very similar looking to the Giant Panda.
(Oh, and for people in the Temecula area: Rincon has 8 of these, plus 4 G2 Bonus Time units. Right next to each other too, so you can camp both sets.)
That's awesome! I want to go to Temecula!
Do you know how much that Bet For Rescue option is? There would easily be a point that it was worth Betting For Rescue just based on the $30.00 alone, especially if you played/watched the machine enough to get a good idea of natural bonus frequency.
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